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Cheating - Using "Clock Shift Engine"

 
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Outspan
Matelot


Joined: 26 May 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Denmark

PostPosted: 20 Nov 2011 17:24    Post subject: Cheating - Using "Clock Shift Engine" Reply with quote

I was made aware of a user who managed to outsail the rest of fleet using a clock shift trick.

It is quite obvious - but I guess if used less obvious this would be a really neat way to win races.. - altho' not a very fun way...

Download the replay here:
http://www.outspan.dk/VSK-WithEngine.zip

And keep an eye on ESP-290 (username: ivanpeke).

Cheers,
OutSpan
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Camster
Moderator


Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 1497
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: 20 Nov 2011 18:41    Post subject: Reply with quote

I enjoyed the replay - thanks Sourire

It seems hard to disguise that engine - the boat always looks jumpy and even before the engine is obvious, the players complain of that skipper lagging.

Thanks for including the login name. I'll watch for him. Clin d'oeil
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Ozren Marusic
mousse


Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 2

PostPosted: 20 Nov 2011 21:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the beginning of the race the game itself wrote down with red letters : "ESP-290 is using Clock Shift Engine"
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Outspan
Matelot


Joined: 26 May 2011
Posts: 56
Location: Denmark

PostPosted: 20 Nov 2011 22:11    Post subject: See it on youtube Reply with quote

In case you're not familar with how the "show replay" works in VSK - I uploaded some of it to youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lC3o-Xtktg

// Outspan
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kiwi_bardy
Amiral


Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 416
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: 21 Nov 2011 6:25    Post subject: Re: Cheating - Using "Clock Shift Engine" Reply with quote

Outspan wrote:
I guess if used less obvious this would be a really neat way to win races.. - altho' not a very fun way...


Thanks Outspan, good work.

I suspect that the 'fun' for those involved is not in winning... it is in figuring out how, and then proving that they CAN do it. The race result probably means little or nothing to them - their satisfaction would come from having successfully executed their code.

And, this might only be an early version. Having proved to themselves it can be done, and not only that but that they can do it, the next challenge, the next 'fun' thing to work out would be how to do it in a more subtle way...

We all get satisfaction from the competition and fun of racing. They might get satisfaction from the intellectual challenge or from the money they might be able to make by tranfering such knowledge and code to games where people will pay for the benefit...
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Aquabat
Capitaine


Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 295

PostPosted: 21 Nov 2011 9:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the update Outspan.

Had anyone tried to make contact with ESP-290 to obtain his view.

There is a chance that this was simply a genuine VSK Clock Shift rather than a user generated one with the aim of cheating. Saying that I know very little about clock shifting and not sure that I want to know much more about it other than I have seen it appear on my screen in RED from time to time both with my name and names of other boats.

Is there chance this could be an extreme case of `genuine ` Clock Shift ?

Rob
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Ozren Marusic
mousse


Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 2

PostPosted: 21 Nov 2011 10:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aquaboat, I was in contact with him and he sad "this is just a game"... Sourire He new that he was cheating.
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Lupin
mousse


Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 41
Location: Italy

PostPosted: 21 Nov 2011 16:20    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's new ?

there are tons of cheating ... and it seems there are no way to be sure any guy is cheating ( even if we have learned to recognize them ) ... our tests can not be interpreted as evidence, so the only solution is to know who you're racing with Clin d'oeil

The most impressive fact is that these friends will spend the same time and the same care to find out how to do a covered cheating of what they spend to find out how they should conduct a Boat Tr?s content

Pino
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Lupin ( Pino - Skyppyno )
... gente che va , gente che viene , tutto senza senso ...
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Aquabat
Capitaine


Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 295

PostPosted: 21 Nov 2011 18:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
there are tons of cheating


I do not sail as much as some guys ... but I sail most days during the week and I really have not seen any cheating apart from`normal` bad play like port barging.

Quote:
I was in contact with him and he sad "this is just a game"... He new that he was cheating.


Now he could be just trying to `wind` you up and get a reaction, this has been done many times before. I seem to remember one person on this forum making statements that they could hack into the individual TCP/IP packets to cheat ... which of course is a load of rubbish.

I do not know if he was or was not cheating .. but to be part way to being sure the`action` needs to be witnessed several times before we can have a higher level of confidence that something is amiss.

Rob
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admiral
Amiral


Joined: 27 Oct 2003
Posts: 339
Location: Nederland

PostPosted: 03 Jan 2012 9:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
that this was simply a genuine VSK Clock Shift


hmm the "genuine" VSK clock shift means somebody's game is putting out data which is not synchron. The threshold for the "genuine" VSK clock shift warning to pop-up is exceeded. With "genuine" one would asume the player that exceeeds the treshold blames the game, his computer but mainly means to say that he she is not willingly "cheating".

However investigation will show that the data really is not synchron, and computers that that have clocks that are so bad that they exceed the threshold ( we're talking 1%- 2% , guestimating 1 sec / minute) should not pass quality control at the manufacturer... The closest to a "genuine VSK clock shift" is caused by overclocking eg. ASUS dynamic overclocking etc... much smaller clockshifts usually are caused by your system synchronising its internal clock witch if time synchronisation is turned on normally lies well below VSK's treshhold.

Weather called cheating or genuine a 1% speed advantage is nothing to "joke" about.... if at all just except it as one of the peculiarities of online gaming.. just make sure not to discard a computer system that fits your sailing.. your new computer actually could be better.... Sourire
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latindane
mousse


Joined: 04 Nov 2010
Posts: 2
Location: Denmark

PostPosted: 05 Jan 2012 12:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

admiral wrote:
The closest to a "genuine VSK clock shift" is caused by overclocking eg. ASUS dynamic overclocking etc...


Hi admiral,

This was my experience with my new ASUS laptop for the first few races. Did I inadvertently cheat during those (thankfully not big event) races? i.e. did I have a 1% or whatever speed advantage because my CPU was overclocking?
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admiral
Amiral


Joined: 27 Oct 2003
Posts: 339
Location: Nederland

PostPosted: 09 Jan 2012 18:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's not actually a speed advantage, it's that your boat actually has a couple of percentage points more time to sail the same distance.. you get to sail or play eg. 61 seconds worth where the real world only gets 60 seconds... because your clock runs faster. That's the clock shift. And VSK protests if it exceeds the treshhold. For what its worth if you detect clockshifts for all other boats yor clock is slower then those. If others detect a clockshift for your boat your clock is faster.

If you stay below the treshhold VSK does not protest.. fair or not there are going to be differences that can only be prevented in a controlled environment. Think of a LAN party where player have absolute identical systems and the host does not participate in racing.. Sourire anything else is a compromise.

Whether one uses autohotkey to type, or overclock a system for a better experience.. make sails transparent or cancel penalty's 'presumably' caused by latencies.. basically it's up to you what to consider "cheating"... just remember its a game.. and there is nothing to be won by loosing respect.
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Lupin
mousse


Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 41
Location: Italy

PostPosted: 10 Jan 2012 15:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear friends,

may I do any considerations ?

What is a game ? In my opinion a game is an activity regulated by precise rules ... if you change the rules , you play a different game ...

This is for soccer, for basketball, for poker, for lippa and so on Clin d'oeil

This could be the reason because the free hackservers are favorites and always full ; the fact that those who use the cheating or not following the rules is just a poor lunatic, is not a proof that there is no cheating.

For the moment we cannot consider any "signs" as proof ... so we must be content to consider our events just a "hobby" ... NOT a game nor absolutely a sport.

Pino
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Lupin ( Pino - Skyppyno )
... gente che va , gente che viene , tutto senza senso ...
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