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VirtualSkipper 5 Online
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Dez Brown
mousse


Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 3
Location: Noosa Australia

PostPosted: 28 Oct 2008 1:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike... Nadeo is in the software business...right.. so it's a business that requires an income from its products to maintain it's production, wages and R & D for patches/new projects.

Answer me this hypothetically: - If you were in a business where one of your products, for whatever reason was not "earning it's keep", would you drop the product or keep it and take loss financially or look to create a more successful product.

If you answered yes you would drop it, and that is the most logical response (and certainly the one I gave myself).....It's just good business sense.

As much as I hope this will never happen, it is also a fact that the sailing market is nowhere near as big as other gaming markets, and the fact remains that we have been told that we can use LAN (private servers) and probably will if the situation ever arises that we need to.

Just as you would be able to shut down your "Free World" website club if you wanted to, It reads so hypocritical of you to ask Nadeo to offer a guarantee of server. If you actually believed in a"Free World" you would also understand that Nadeo is in the "Free World" and is also free to choose whether it keeps VSK active or closes it down to pursue other avenues of revenue.

As I said, I hope it never does... but if it does we do have the option to LAN,...(don't expect an invite anytime soon)

If your product is a free world, forgive me if I don't buy it.

It seems you don't really believe in what your selling.

What do they call it over your way...Oh yeah...."lipstick on a pig"
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Mikel
mousse


Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 9
Location: San Fransico, Ca, USA

PostPosted: 28 Oct 2008 2:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

so for the online free version, can i use other boat models? ex the rc 44 or the vo70.v2??

i have downloaded and tried installing, but im having no luck in using the boats. i am wondering if installed them wrong or what.

please help!

cheers
mikel
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Very Crankie Yankee
Amiral


Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Posts: 347
Location: http://freeworldyachtclub.net

PostPosted: 28 Oct 2008 5:32    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dez Brown wrote:
Mike... Nadeo is in the software business...right.. so it's a business that requires an income from its products to maintain it's production, wages and R & D for patches/new projects.


That is not my problem. It's Nadeo's and they are doing a fine job trying to keep VSK alive and well. Contrary to your belief I hope they succeed.

Dez Brown wrote:
we have been told that we can use LAN (private servers)


Now this is where I have a problem with VSK5 online............... As far as the license agreement states, we do NOT have the right to use VSK5 online on either a LAN (Local Area Network), a VPN (Virtual Private Network), any kind of network or multiplayer arrangement, etc........ The problem as I see it lies in the fact that there is a license agreement that is completely in conflict with what Hylis has stated to me in respect to not explicitly using the software on Focus Home Interactive servers regardless of what anybody thinks or does about it. I can't speak for anybody else but it is very clear what Hylis has said to me, what the license agreement states and the fact they are completely opposite. It is written in plain English for all to see.

Dez Brown wrote:

Just as you would be able to shut down your "Free World" website club if you wanted to, It reads so hypocritical of you to ask Nadeo to offer a guarantee of server. If you actually believed in a"Free World" you would also understand that Nadeo is in the "Free World" and is also free to choose whether it keeps VSK active or closes it down to pursue other avenues of revenue.

If your product is a free world, forgive me if I don't buy it.

It seems you don't really believe in what your selling.


Sure, Nadeo is free to do whatever they want as I am free to ask simple questions. It would be nice to have a guarantee but we all know that isn't going to happen. I would be amazed if it did. Asking for something doesn't make someone a hypocrite.

Anyway, I am not the Free World Yacht Club and it amuses me that you bring it up. I am simply the founding member. Nothing more. The FWYC will never shut down nor do I have complete control over it. The FWYC to date consists of almost 300 (and growing daily) sailors and virtual sailors who come and go as they please, express themselves as they see fit and do what they wish. It is probaby way too simple of a concept for you to grasp. It is what it is. Love it or hate it but it's not going away. It would take complete and catastrophic failure of the world wide web for that to happen. One thing is for sure. Virtual sailing with VSK will survive at the FWYC regardless of what happens to Nadeo.

I'm not selling anything and the FWYC is not selling anything. I believe in what the FWYC stands for. FREEDOM!!!! It doesn't get any simpler than that. Clin d'oeil
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admiral
Amiral


Joined: 27 Oct 2003
Posts: 339
Location: Nederland

PostPosted: 28 Oct 2008 9:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
so for the online free version, can i use other boat models? ex the rc 44 or the vo70.v2??

i have downloaded and tried installing, but im having no luck in using the boats. i am wondering if installed them wrong or what.


Most of the community installers still put the files in 'my documents/ 32-nd americascup'

Either you give it the correct folder 'my documents/Vsk5online' during installation or you copy the /boats /skins and /tracks folders from your 'my documents/32-nd americascup' to your 'my documents/Vsk5Online' folder.
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tribo
mousse


Joined: 02 Oct 2008
Posts: 21

PostPosted: 31 Oct 2008 21:33    Post subject: Reply with quote

well well well ....after my cd of vsk 32 not works ,,, (yes i know no hope to have a new one,,,,)

i am with lots of deconection problems in vsk5 (patched ) so i try to desinstall game before download free setup of vsk 5

i download vsk5 free and try to install it but...

the setup is corrupted and cannot run ,,, ok i do new download ,,same problem,,,,
possible to indicate me a good place to download an uncorrupt setup of free vsk?

the alternative solution is only to buy now 39€ a game that i will ever paid in cd 57E....to have possibility to play???
and after also become to paid each year ,,,for a game who divide hes players in two with strange patch...


nadeo needs to have better actualisation ways than post in forum why not use actualisation key ???that seems a professional way needed
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tribo
mousse


Joined: 02 Oct 2008
Posts: 21

PostPosted: 31 Oct 2008 23:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok a friend send me the setup thx
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kiwi_bardy
Amiral


Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 417
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: 19 Jan 2009 8:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

Questions I have for someone at Nadeo about vsk5Online.

Reason for asking these questions: A LOT of players are asking this in the game. I want to know what to tell them.

1. Can someone with VSK5Online use custom skins, or can they only use the default skins that come with the game?

Background: Various people have posted in the forums saying you can use custom skins if you are using VSK5Online. Testing indicates however that while the VSK5Online user themself sees their custom skin, other players still see them as one of the Nadeo country skins.

2. If a VSK5Online user can use custom skins, how do they do so an have other players see the custom skin they are using?

3. If VSK5Online users cannot use custom skins:

( a ) why not?


and

( b ) Could Nadeo please consider either:

( i ) releasing a patch with the Nadeo default skins being modified to have more transparent sails?;

and/or

( ii ) could any future release Nadeo skins please be made with more transparent sails?


The reason is that MANY players very very often complain in the game that the default skins don't have more transparent sails. When approaching marks, particularly bottom marks (where spinnakers are dropped) the spinnakers of boats behind you often blind you, which causes frustration, and many unnecessary penalties.

I know that there are work arounds for this, but I would like Nadeo to understand the problem it causes in game play, and make changes so that the work arounds are not necessary. The work arounds are fine, but experienced players ALREADY have to spend a lot of time explaining many thing s to new players (of which there are a LOT more lately, which is GREAT news) and it would much better if the game came with default skins that were already transparent enough not to interfere with game play.


Last edited by kiwi_bardy on 19 Jan 2009 23:38; edited 1 time in total
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Skiffie
Capitaine


Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 250
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: 19 Jan 2009 12:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course Bardy, you could encourage them to buy the full version!! Mort de rire (which I guess is the objective of the free version - try the game, if you like it enough to want to mod the game through skins, then support it by buying the subscription!)
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andynz
Moderator


Joined: 10 Nov 2005
Posts: 1063
Location: http://www.vys.co.nz

PostPosted: 19 Jan 2009 21:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

I quite agree Mark. The best thing that Nadeo can do for us paying guys is reduce the numbers of features available to the free guys and hope there is a big "true-up" later this year that puts plenty of revenue in the purse for more enhancements Sourire

Now having said that, I have no problem making the P2P features (such as sharing skins) work in the free version.

I will have to check the transparent sails bit but as the file structure is the same as AC32 I see no reason for it not to work.... something to test Sourire
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fosterbarry
Amiral


Joined: 13 May 2006
Posts: 301

PostPosted: 19 Jan 2009 22:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

andynz wrote:
.....The best thing that Nadeo can do for us paying guys is reduce the numbers of features available to the free guys .....


100% agree.
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kiwi_bardy
Amiral


Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 417
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: 19 Jan 2009 23:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am all for limiting the features in the free version too. I am not particularly interested in the debate over whether skins should or should not be share-able in the free version - I just want to know, from Nadeo, what the truth about this is, so I know what to tell people. I am all for encouraging players to upgrade from the free version to the paid version. Knowing the answer to this one way or the other would help in that, because, say the free version doesn't share skins, then I could say to people with the free version, "You should upgrade, then you could share skins..."

At the moment if you say that someone will say yes it can, and someone else will say no it can't.

The reason I would like Nadeo to at some point make the default skins more transparent is that in the game play it's not the person WITH the default skin that has their game experienced degraded by it... it's the person 1 - 2 boat lengths in front of them that has their vision obscured by the non-transparent sails. This is an issue because you can say to the free version user "If you upgrade you can then use a custom skin, with more transparent sails" and some of them reply, but it's good that the sails are not transparent, because that obscures the vision of people in front of me, so it helps me...

The testing with VSK5Online done so far seems to indicate that you can install a custom skin, and you see it on your machine, but other players still see you as having a default Nadeo skin, although which one they see seems to vary. I have the theory that they see whichever one you last had selected before changing to the custom skin, but I have not proved that yet.
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kiwi_bardy
Amiral


Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 417
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: 21 Jan 2009 4:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

I discussed this with Jeff (game name: JCM21884 vsk-usa.com) and he kindly agreed to do some testing as he has several machines with various versions of the game installed on them. This is the email he sent me today:

---------email from JCM starts here----------
2009/1/21 JCM2812

Bardy,

I did several tests using the free VSK5 Online free version.

TEST 1:

Environment:
Local Network Host on a AC32 Patched Server. 3 boats each on a separate machine.

Host: AC32 patched using a custom skin (my blue hull with yellow stripe)
Boat1: VSK5 Online Free Version using a standard Skin (GBR)
Boat2: VSK5 Online Free Version using a custom skin - this skin was not on either of the two machines

In this test, on a local network every boat could see the skins of the other boats.


TEST 2:


I then created an on-line host consisting of the above the Host boat and Boat 2 as above.

The AC32 Host boat could NOT see the custom skin of Boat 2.
The Boat 2 could see the custom skin of the Host boat.
The Boat 2 computer did NOT have the custom skin of the Host boat in its "..Vsk5Online\Skins\Boats\ACC" folder

I went to the lobby mode, then restarted the race and:
The Boat 2 now COULD see the skin of the Host boat.
The Host boat saw the custom skin of Boat 2 as the Nadeo BRA - Brazil boat.

I then stopped the server and restarted it. The same scenario occurred again: first start no skin on boat 2, second start Nadeo BRA - Brazil skin.

TEST 3:

I then changed the skins to default skins:
Host - Nadeo CHN - China
Boat 2 - Nadeo FRA - France
Then I opened an online server each boat saw the other's correctly.

TEST 4:

I then changed both boat's skin back to the same custom skin they had before.
I then opened another online server and:
Host saw Boat 2 as Nadeo BRA - Brazil
Boat 2 could see the host boat's custom skin

So it seems on a local network all skins are shared, but Nadeo restricts the free version from passing skins online.

IMO, we who pay for the game should be able to see all skins and the free version should be restricted.

It will be interesting if Nadeo responds to your post.

Hope this helps.

Jeff
----------email from JCM ends here----------

This followed an online race where JCM was using one of his machines that has only ever had VSK5Online installed on it. He said he was using his normal JCM blue and Yellow custom skin, but I saw his boat as the Australian Default Nadeo skin. When he and I were discussing this in the chat box, another player said they were using a default skin at the time using VSK5Online, but everyone else in the race said we saw that player's boat as the default Nadeo Swiss skin.
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kiwi_bardy
Amiral


Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 417
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: 27 Jan 2009 2:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the meantime, while we wait for replies about this, a few of us have begun exploring a way to avoid getting frustrated by not being able to see through the default Nadeo skins sails.

Initially we tried deleting the Nadeo default skin files (e.g. Alinghi, Team New Zealand, Oracle, Prada etc. in the AC32 version, and the AUS, GBR, FRA, BRA, JPN etc. files in the VSK5/VSK5Online versions)

this worked, for a while. Now when someone was using one of those skins, instead of seeing their Nadeo skin with it's non see through sails, you saw the default 'skin not downloaded yet' skin, which we had modified following the excellent instructions at Camster's Northspace site so that that skin now has transparent sails.

However, the game then, of course, started redownloading the Nadeo skins off the other polayers, at approximately 11MB per skin... that was 12 skins for VSK AC32 and another 12 for the VSK5 skins - that's 24 11 MB skins or around 264MB of bandwidth! And for what? a few days of visibility before they started reappearing...

So we took another approach...

We have:

1. Taken the VSKAC32 Luna Rossa Challenge.zip ACC skin for Prada and made a very simple change to Sails1.dds, Sails2.dds and Spi2.dds. All we changed was the alpha layer, from very untransparent to more transparent.

2. We then saved the original prada sails files in a directory as back up, renaming the .zip file from Luna Rossa Challenge.zip to Luna Rossa Challenge Old Sails.zip

3. We then took the prada Hull.dds, TeamMate.dss, Icon.dds and the new transparent sails Sails1.dss, Sails2.dss and Spi2.dds and zipped them into a file which we named Luna Rossa Challenge.zip

This all works fine, so now when I open the game and set my ACC skin to Luna Rossa Challenge I see the Prada boat with the new transparent version of Prada's sails.

Here are screenshots with the original sails:



and



And here are the screenshots with the new transparent sails:



and



We can do this for each of the AC32 syndicates of course, and for the VSK5 Nadeo country skins.

This is where we have hit a roadblock.

Unless the skin .zip files

( a ) have exactly the same name as the original files, AND

( b ) are exactly the same size as the original files, the game says "oh! Look! It's a different file, I must download it."

Despite the six component .dds files being exactly the same size. i.e.



When we sip the 6 .dds files including the transparent sails we get a different sized .zip file than we do when we zip the 6 .dds files including the non-transparent version of the sails. This is using the same software and version to do the zipping, and using all the same settings, compression types etc.

The Nadeo sails result in a .zip file of 11,098kb and the new transparent sails result in a .zip file of 9,559kb.

Can anyone offer any help as to how we might be able to get the .zip file with the transparent sails to be the same size as the .zip file with the Nadeo original non-transparent sails?

We have tried altering the Compression level, Compression method, Encryption Method, Dictionary Size, Word Size, Number of CPU Threads, and the software used to do the zipping - we've used winzip, 7zip, and winRAR. All of these variations have resulted in our transparent sails .zip file varying in size, from 8MB to 10.5MB, depending on the various settings and software used, but we can't get it to be exactly the same size as the original (11,098kb).

We have thought about adding additional files before zipping, on a trial an error basis to "pad" the archive to be bigger, but this is a very slow hit and miss approach, because we need the resulting .zip file to be EXACTLY the same size, AND each of the Nadeo .zip files are a different size (due to the different graphics within them), so each file would need a long process of hit and miss fiddling to get a resulting .zip file of exactly the right size.
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kiwi_bardy
Amiral


Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 417
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: 27 Jan 2009 4:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having looked at the two Sails1.dds files (the original Nadeo non transparent one, and the new transparent one) and having right clicked on them and selected properties I get this:



Note that the size is the same in both cases, but the 'packed size" is smaller for the transparent version...
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duaner
mousse


Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 33
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA

PostPosted: 27 Jan 2009 4:34    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use an old copy of Photoshop (5.5). The way I changed my original skin sails was to open the .dds, select image, select adjust, select brightness&contrast. Then I adjust only the brightness darker 100% and then click ok. I then save the .dds file. I have the nvidia for photoshop .dds plugin. I do this for all the sails and zip them all using winrar. I did this almost a year ago and they still work for me.

One thing I did notice is the file size that Bardy posted for original Luna Rossa is different that what I have for my downloaded version 32nd America's Cup. My original is 11,299kb and after converting the sails it is 11,333kb.
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