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"Kick all non-finished boats" button.
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Outspan
Matelot


Joined: 26 May 2011
Posts: 61
Location: Denmark

PostPosted: 16 Nov 2011 9:22    Post subject: Don't agree Reply with quote

Ahoy back

I dont see it as a tall order.
I am guessing that the code base itself is very similar to the one of TrackMania. So it shouldnt be too difficult to get your head around it.

This is not a major rework of the way VSK works. It rather a quick little:
Add menuitem with a codebehind that would (in my C#.Net world) look something like:

foreach (boatObj boat in race.Participants)
{
if (boat.FinishTime == null)
{
Race.DoKick(boat);
}
}

This does not have to cost 1000 of dollars.
It could be a great little task for an apprentice at UbiSoft/Nadeo.

Also - some developers like what they do so much that they dont mind spending a few extra hours at night to make a few (or more) people happy.

So in my world. Not really that tall of an order.

I think your ideas with writing result files every X seconds - and the keeping track of IP adresses - is taking something very simple and turn it into a very complicated task.

But what it all boils down to.
I need a result file - and people like to get their ladder points.
So a quick fix for that - would be very much appreciated.

Cheers,
OutSpan

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juliobandv
mousse


Joined: 16 Nov 2011
Posts: 1

PostPosted: 16 Nov 2011 12:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

I totally agree Mort de rire
We need a mechanism to remove that bad sailors from the server.
They are a prague.

good idea, and hope you can implement this

Julio
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Outspan
Matelot


Joined: 26 May 2011
Posts: 61
Location: Denmark

PostPosted: 16 Nov 2011 20:00    Post subject: PROBLEM SOLVED ! :D Reply with quote

I solved the problem Sourire

Using AUTOHOTKEY I kicked all players after 15 minutes.
This generates the result file and all finishers will get a time and I can therefore always calculate the players new ranking on my site.

Only drawback is that only the players kicked AFTER the ghost has been kicked - will get NADEO's ladder points.

So from now on...
If you want to continue playing on my server...
You have to re-enter it - after each race...

-------
Dear Nadeo

No need to solve this afterall...
But now that you have the source code open...
Can you DELETE the 17.1 penalty... Sourire

Thanks ...

Cheers,
OutSpan


P.S.
You can download the AUTOHOTKEY script on my site.
You might have to alter the "kicking" procedure - if your screen resolution is different from the one I use...
If you need help for this... Send me a mail..

My site is http://autohost.dyndns.dk - Look under FAQ for download link
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CANKnot
Moderator


Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 1321

PostPosted: 18 Nov 2011 4:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am glad to hear you found a simple work around. I just jumped onto your server for the first time the other night and had a great bunch of races.

Outspan wrote:
I think your ideas with writing result files every X seconds - and the keeping track of IP adresses - is taking something very simple and turn it into a very complicated task.

Granted. I was just trying to think of solutions that were workable (if not a bit complicated) that required little, if any, response from Nadeo/UBISoft.

Quote:
This does not have to cost 1000 of dollars.

But any code change, no matter how trivial costs thousands of dollars.

For one thing all available programmers will already have a project to work on and deadlines to meet. Diverting programmer time from TrackMania X (or whatever) will require the approval of at least one manager (likely 2-3).

Then the programer has to get the code from source control, make the changes, test the changes, and rebuild the program for redistribution.

Then the new version has to be pushed out to publishers (Metaboli, Gamesplanet etc).

It is not as simple as you or I writing a few lines of code and posting it to a web site.

Quote:
Can you DELETE the 17.1 penalty...

Oh God... please NO Clin d'oeil

I think this falls into the "Be carefull what you wish for" category.

VSK calls 17.1 perfectly... with one major caveat... the VSK umpire doesn't see land (or other "obstructions") so it doesn't always calculate a boat's "proper course" correctly. .

However, if you do away with 17.1 then boats would be able to luff when they don't have rights (which VSK now penalizes correctly) and I can only imagine the howls of protest that would ensue.

I think a flawed 17.1 is better than no 17.1 as the flaw is easy enough to avoid if you know not to overlap a boat when near land. But if there is no land nearby and a boat gets a 17.1 penalty then that boat deserved a 17.1 penalty.
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Outspan
Matelot


Joined: 26 May 2011
Posts: 61
Location: Denmark

PostPosted: 20 Nov 2011 17:26    Post subject: :) okay okay ... no 17.1 removal then... Reply with quote

Okay okay
I wont wish for any changes then..

Except for maybe - a fix for the VSK5.exe version - that creates XML result files.

Am I the only one that noticed that spectators and players waiting for next race gets a DNF for the active race?

Cheers,
Outspan
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CANKnot
Moderator


Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 1321

PostPosted: 22 Nov 2011 16:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can wish... you just have to be careful Sourire I keep thinking of the Pen cancel "feature". Allowing players to cancel penalties seemed perfectly reasonable when it was proposed, but it was likely THE most controversial change ever made to VSK.

Quote:
Except for maybe - a fix for the VSK5.exe version - that creates XML result files.

You should find the XML versions of the result files in the same directory as the .csv files. Are they not being generated for you?
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kiwi_bardy
Amiral


Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 417
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: 23 Nov 2011 9:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

CANKnot wrote:
VSK calls 17.1 perfectly... with one major caveat... the VSK umpire doesn't see land (or other "obstructions") so it doesn't always calculate a boat's "proper course" correctly.


While I agree with everything else you say Keith, THAT is not quite correct. There is more than one caveat...

Yes, that caveat is correct... but it is NOT the ONLY thing the game gets wrong with 17.1

It also gets it wrong when there are 3 (or more) boats involved.

e.g.

3 boats. Boat A, the leeward most boat is overlapped with both Boat B (Middle) and Boat C (windward most of the three). Boat A is NOT constrained by 17.1 as it was orignally clear ahead of both Boat B and C. Boat B IS constrained by rule 17.1 because it established its leeward overlap on BOAT C from clear astern.

Boat A luffs, as it is entitled to. Boat B must keep clear (rule 11) but as Boat B does so it get's a 17.1 penalty versus Boat C.

Boat B should not get this penalty, because Boat B's proper course (The course it would sail to finish as soon as possible in the absence of the other boat (Boat C) in the rule concerned (17.1)) is to luff to keep clear of Boat A as Boat B is required to do so under rule 11.

The game's umpire gets this wrong too, with no land involved.
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CANKnot
Moderator


Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 1321

PostPosted: 23 Nov 2011 18:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

True enough, that is what I meant by other obstructions. But I should qualify my last statement better... if a boat gets a 17.1 penalty and there is no land nearby, the penalty is likely correct... unless it is the case you stated
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Camster
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Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 1510
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: 23 Nov 2011 23:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

... Except on a shy spinnaker reach, when it can be a valid proper course to head high under genoa and then set the spi later. But if you do this, having obtained an overlap from astern, you will get a 17.1.

Of course that is why we have a pen cancel button.

Sourire
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JHL
Matelot


Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 126

PostPosted: 26 Nov 2011 23:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
VSK calls 17.1 perfectly... with one major caveat... the VSK umpire doesn't see land (or other "obstructions") so it doesn't always calculate a boat's "proper course" correctly.


The umpire doesn't pen skippers who intentionally run tens of degrees over the layline under chute such that both boats - you and he - need to reach back to the mark under #2. "Proper course" is largely missed in VSK, and with no boat damage of concern oneself with, literally shoving the windward boat into the next dimension is not uncommon...
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kiwi_bardy
Amiral


Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 417
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: 27 Nov 2011 21:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

JHL wrote:
Quote:
VSK calls 17.1 perfectly... with one major caveat... the VSK umpire doesn't see land (or other "obstructions") so it doesn't always calculate a boat's "proper course" correctly.


The umpire doesn't pen skippers who intentionally run tens of degrees over the layline under chute such that both boats - you and he - need to reach back to the mark under #2. "Proper course" is largely missed in VSK, and with no boat damage of concern oneself with, literally shoving the windward boat into the next dimension is not uncommon...


I disagree with that.

( a ) _IF_ the leeward boat established its overlap from clear astern and is within boatlengths of the windward boat I think VSK calls that 17.1 penalty correctly, and very agressively... the moment you go beyond the layline the 17.1 in the ISAF window becomes red.

( b ) If however the leeward boat did NOT establish its overlap from clear astern, then the game does not call a penalty... and nor should it... in such circumstances the leeward boat is perfectly entitled to go as far beyond the layline as they like, and perfectly entitled to luff all the way to head to wind.

They are not required to sail a proper course unless they are bound by rule 17.1, and for that to be the case they need to have established the overlap from clear astern.
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najevi
Capitaine


Joined: 20 Dec 2008
Posts: 253
Location: Gold Coast (Australia)

PostPosted: 10 Dec 2011 7:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

For what it's worth I also agree with Outspan that such a "Kick all non-finished boats" button would be a valuable addition.

I'm just wondering if we should not be thinking about what else would enhance the autohost experience without creating too huge a burden for further software development.

Trusted List for Reports of Abuse
For example I imagine that a host (especially an autohost script) would benefit from access to information about any skippers that are reported via the "Report Abuse" button during a series of races. Suppose that the result.xml file included a section that listed login name pairs - being the name of skippers who reported another skipper. Now I would not trust any random skipper's report of abuse because that very "Report Abuse" feature might be abused by some mischievous players. However, I might maintain a list of even a few hundred skippers (maybe even the top 500 in the rank list) whose reports of abuse I am willing to trust. That way at the end of each race my script might parse the results.xml file and look for reports of abuse that I "trust" and then allow my script to add login names to my autohost server's blacklist.

Maybe someone who hosts often can finesse the detail but something along these lines would allow the so-called "trusted" players to act as regatta moderators in much the same way that trusted players at this forum act as forum moderators.

Rank based admittance
The top 10,000 players are accessible to anyone who has an ounce of interest in making the query so I wonder how difficult it would be to tweak the script for an autohost server to admit only those login names whose rank falls within a specified range. Say what you like about the points system, it is clear to me that some players value the prospect of racing online with a view to increasing their relative rank and so an autohost server ought to accommodate this.

So how easily might a script test each login name to see if it is within some pre-specified list of players such as those players ranked [10,000 to 5,000] or [1,000 to 1] or "not in the range [10,000 to 1]" or whatever tickles your fancy? It ought not matter if this list is 24 hours old. Rough enough is good enough.

Autohost servers
Outspan, I enjoy sailing at your autohost server even when their are mischievous players. It does not bother me whether I earn points or not. Just knowing that a new race starts about every 15 minutes is great.

Only recently has my situation changed such that I might host some races myself and I can't imagine attending the server to host but I could imagine setting up an autohost server to monitor as time permits.

Keep up the great work. I am keen to check out your script and dabble with it for myself. I did not find the FAQ link at your website but will check there again in a few days.

Fair winds!
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najevi
Capitaine


Joined: 20 Dec 2008
Posts: 253
Location: Gold Coast (Australia)

PostPosted: 10 Dec 2011 8:28    Post subject: Re: :) okay okay ... no 17.1 removal then... Reply with quote

Outspan wrote:
Am I the only one that noticed that spectators and players waiting for next race gets a DNF for the active race?


I am using the patched version of VSK5 that generates result_date_time.xml files.

I checked for this last night and I am not seeing what you have reported. Here is what I can observe.
A player that:
  • starts a race but does not finish gets <time>DNF</time>
  • does not start the race at all gets <time>-1</time>
  • was kicked gets <time>-1</time>
  • enters server as spectator and leaves server before race finishes does not get recorded in the result file.

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Rojoyinc
mousse


Joined: 08 Dec 2011
Posts: 18

PostPosted: 14 Dec 2011 17:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems like the race should have a ending time which is long eoungh for the slowest boats... And end. Anyone not over the finish line in that time frame isn't considered in the race or is shown to finish at the max race time.

I think this is how sail sim works. It has a race end time at the start of the race.

As to support? If the company isn't interested to develope and update the product, then sell it to a company that will.
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